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It is often said that the Caisse des Dépôts et Consignations is the financial arm of the state. With an aggregate assessment of almost 1,300 billion euros, subsidiaries which participate in the financing of companies such as Bpifrance (the public investment bank) or the Territorial Bank. The Caisse des Dépôts is also the majority shareholder of the La Poste group, the company of the Alpes, of the Emeis group – formerly Orpea, and many other companies, such as the real estate developer Icade or the Euronext stock market operator.
But if the general public knows above all the Caisse des Dépôts, it is obviously because it manages the savings of the French.
franceinfo : More than half of the A booklet, whose rate only drops. At 2.4 % since February 1ᵉʳ, it could drop to 1.7 % on August 1ᵉʳ. Are you not afraid that with this interest rate that keeps lower, the French turn away from the booklet A to go to life insurance, for example?
Olivier Sichel :: No, we are not afraid because the rate of booklet A is set according to inflation. And inflation is very, very low at the moment. So the purchasing power of the French is preserved. On the other hand, it is true that there are other more interesting investments, such as life insurance or actions. But these investments are less liquid, and the capital is guaranteed. While with an action, it can go up, it can go down. And then the interests of booklet A are tax exempt, while for other investments, there is a taxation. So we are not afraid of a drop in collection.
However, the collection of life insurance has continued to increase and reached a record level in April.
Absolutely. But for us, we think that this year, we will again collect between 7 and 10 billion euros, on a total assessment of the savings fund – which is considerable – of 400 billion. So, compared to our mission which is to lend to social housing to build housing, we have no problem to carry out our mission. We can even do more. The country’s ecological transition has been funded a lot, for example the renovation of schools or the renovation of water networks. And we have no problem to carry out our missions.
Precisely accommodation is one of the main concerns of the French, one of the main expenditure stations, can’t you do more?
We are already doing more. 10 years ago, the Caisse des Dépôts, through the booklet, financed housing in five. Last year, it was two in five dwellings. So when in the street, you see five cranes, two which are funded by the Caisse des Dépôts to build social housing. And we will increase our funding with social housing. Not just social, moreover, a big plan on student housing was announced a few weeks ago to invest 5 billion and create 75,000 dwellings for students. Today at 380,000 student dwellings.
All this money is also used to finance other things, such as thermal renovation. Defense Is it envisaged too?
Indeed, the Caisse des Dépôts group is already exposed on defense up to 50 billion. But he does it rather through Bpifrance, which finances the defense industry. The savings of the French through the booklet A does not finance the defense industry.
And can it change or not?
No, it’s not going to change. We may finance some infrastructure such as, for example, the accommodation for gendarmes, or equipment such as schools or military hospitals. But it is not the booklet A which will finance the defense industry. The defense industry, it needs shareholders, private investors. And so that is the role of Bpifrance or private funds that we will help, but not through the booklet A.
Is it a question of social acceptability?
It is above all a question of risk. In fact, the booklet A is used above all to lend local communities and there is no risk. When you lend a town, it does not go bankrupt. When you lend a social landlord, it does not go bankrupt. When you invest in a business, you take a risk. And as I said, booklet A is a placement that must remain without risk for the French.
Another sector we know that there is a lot of funding today is nuclear. Six EPRs must be built at a cost that could increase to 100 billion. Should we mobilize here the savings of the French?
Here, we are more in the context of major infrastructure and the loan to a public company – since EDF is 100 % owned by the State. But it is not we who decide. In fact, there is first a choice on the part of nuclear in the French energy mix. This is a choice that comes from the State, shared between the government and the Parliament, which must express themselves through a multi -year energy program. And then, it is an authorization that the Minister of Economy and Finance must give, namely whether the funding can be used in nuclear. In any event, what is important is that there is room. I recall today that there are 400 billion in the savings fund: 200 billion are loaned to social landlords and local communities and therefore remains 200 billion. So we can do it without oust a single euro to the detriment of social housing. So even if we finance the EPRs, we will always have enough money to finance social housing or to finance local communities.
For the construction of the EPRs, the deputy Jean-René Cazeneuve said that the Caisse des Dépôts could participate up to 18 billion. It’s a good fork ?
Quite. The deputy Jean-René Cazeneuve also has a special role since he is a deputy, but also president of the supervisory commission of the Caisse des Dépôts. So it is he who monitors the jobs of the Caisse des Dépôts. And so indeed, we checked and we can go very easily to 18 billion, even beyond, if we were asked. And what is the interest? This is in fact we are on very long funding. When I lend to build social housing, I lend at 30 years old. When I lend to make, for example, a treatment plant in Nice at Christian Estrosi, the metropolis of Nice, we lent to 40 years. And for nuclear, we know very well that nuclear power plants will last a long time. So it makes sense to have a very, very long -term loan that we are the only ones to be able to do.
Could the Caisse des Dépôts be used in the collective effort in another way ?
Yes, there is another way: to produce energy, electricity is good, to transport it and have electricity transport is also interesting. Because what we finance today are renewable energies, photovoltaic panels, offshore wind. And there is a need to connect it with a company called RTE, of which we are shareholders. And here too, we can lend to modernize our electricity transport network, high voltage lines, submarine cables, so that our electrical network adapts to the production of new renewable energy.
Since you have come to the group’s controls, the house is tidy ?
Yes, especially since I was deputy managing director for seven years. The Caisse des Dépôts is still at the service of the French and the French. Three years ago, we went to the aid of Orpea. Because there were tens of thousands of residents, tens of thousands of caregivers and this group was drifting.
Today is better.
Yes, it is straightening up. We are very vigilant. We make sure that the resident seniors are well treated. We have made standards with a lot of recruitments, indefinite contracts. We have trained a lot, we have an 80% framing rate and we are very vigilant. And for other mobilizations in the future of other possible mobilizations, we are available to the French and French, with an objective of social, territorial cohesion, ecological transformation and defense of our sovereignty.
